Curse

FrogDevourer · Oct 03, 2006, 02:12 PM // 14:12

If the dupe feature (bug?) isn't fixed by NF release, I'll duplicate preorder and bonus weapons on *all* my heroes, and on all my characters. So all my caster heroes will get a Spiritbinder.

GW:F preorder staff:
10/10 generic
+5 energy
<spare wrappings>

As for the non-spellcasters, I'll probably use W/D and D/W with Wild Blow and I'll duplicate the GW:N preorder Icy Soulbreaker of Enchanting (15% enchanted).

This rudimentary equipment is free but better than the average non-solofarmed loot. Add a handful of non-perfect upgrades to round up the equipment and you're good to go. Honestly you don't really need anything better on most your heroes.

If you have spare funds/items and if your heroes need a buff, replace the scythe by something better/different, or replace a few generic spellbinders by collector/crafter profession-specific items: staff (+upgrades) or a focus/wand combo (I'm a fan of 2x 20/20 for most professions). And if you want to show off your wealth, buy top-of-the-line greens or rare-skinned golds.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paperfly

However, bear in mind that with Nightfall I'll have ten PvE toons...
...
For the record, this is to furnish all my characters bar the monk with 2x Boon Prots and an SS.

To avoid hero redundancy, you'll want to equip 3 more heroes per character, and may be 5 more to ensure a full compatibility with your team mate's heroes. So you'll basically have to equip 60/80 heroes total.

Happy farming.

Former Ruling · Oct 03, 2006, 05:44 PM // 17:44

If they don't give us more room somehow...I don't see myself taking many characters through Nightfall to pickup Heros...

Its completely retarded to give 1 character access to 7-8 Heros (Gotta assume 7-8 outta the 12, since some you cant have if you pick another, like the two students Sousuke and Jin) that they have to equip with weapons and shields/offhands, but not give us any space to store these weapons and shields/offhands.

I'd also like to rant alittle about Heros taking drops...when they share your inventory. They take my gold, and my potential weapon drops, then at the end of the day I have to BUY stuff for them and Furnish their weapons.

As for what I'm doing, I guess I'll stack up 1 character with collectors stuff, and Buy a few minor Vigors, cause you know for like a week after release minor vigors will be like 5k, major like 10k, and sups like 60k. I got materials for my characters, unlike with Factions, cause you know from factions that any materials used by the new characters armor will be like 300-500gp per 10pile at the trader.

Clawdius_Talonious · Oct 03, 2006, 05:48 PM // 17:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Former Ruling

If they don't give us more room somehow...I don't see myself taking many characters through Nightfall to pickup Heros...

Its completely retarded to give 1 character access to 7-8 Heros (Gotta assume 7-8 outta the 12, since some you cant have if you pick another, like the two students Sousuke and Jin) that they have to equip with weapons and shields/offhands, but not give us any space to store these weapons and shields/offhands.

I'd also like to rant alittle about Heros taking drops...when they share your inventory. They take my gold, and my potential weapon drops, then at the end of the day I have to BUY stuff for them and Furnish their weapons.

As for what I'm doing, I guess I'll stack up 1 character with collectors stuff, and Buy a few minor Vigors.

They do give you storage space, once Nightfall is out you will be able to store all your heros weapons and offhands or whatnot on the heros themselves.

Ninna · Oct 03, 2006, 05:54 PM // 17:54

Heroes come Equipped with Gear and no Runes

its up to you if you want to change their gear

Clawdius_Talonious · Oct 03, 2006, 06:01 PM // 18:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ninna

Heroes come Equipped with Gear and no Runes

its up to you if you want to change their gear

they come with low end gear, and their AL changes with their level. You'll only have to give them better weapons, and they will hold them so you won't have to store the item when your hero isn't using it.

NinjaKai · Oct 03, 2006, 06:08 PM // 18:08

Only things heroes get are the collectors weapons i'm not using.

Horseman Of War · Oct 03, 2006, 06:38 PM // 18:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ninna

I tested that during preview

Heroes cannot use a customized weapon from a different character

although I believe this to be true, Id like to know exactly how you 'tested' this?

Clawdius_Talonious · Oct 03, 2006, 06:56 PM // 18:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Horseman Of War

although I believe this to be true, Id like to know exactly how you 'tested' this?

step 1, get guildmate to customize item and give it to you, step two, attempt to equip it to your hero.

Ninna · Oct 03, 2006, 07:02 PM // 19:02

I used 2 accounts for the preview
(one account was used just to pass things back and forth)

Both my Ranger and Derv were created on the same account

my Ranger bought a Req7 Axe from the Weapons Crafter in the 3rd mission Outpost --- for Koss

the weapon was customized by my Ranger so it would do 20% more damage

I also Created a Derv Character
- I gave my Ranger Axe to the Derv so that my "new" Koss could use it

the Derv Koss was unable to equip it

Sir Mad · Oct 03, 2006, 09:11 PM // 21:11

Quote:

I'd also like to rant alittle about Heros taking drops...when they share your inventory. They take my gold, and my potential weapon drops, then at the end of the day I have to BUY stuff for them and Furnish their weapons.

You can still use henchies if you don't like heroes...

TadaceAce · Oct 04, 2006, 01:08 AM // 01:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanemacabre

I seriously think the heroes will essentially be like PvP-only characters. You'll be able to choose what runes (that you've unlocked) you want on their armor, and equip them with pvp-style choose-your-mods (unlocked) weapons. Being able to also give them weapons you find will just add a sense of 'dress-up' and only for show.

This way would be very logical. The pvp based players can equip their heroes using their unlocks. Pve players might not have the unlocks but they'll have the money to afford the upgrades.

TadaceAce · Oct 04, 2006, 01:12 AM // 01:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Former Ruling

I'd also like to rant alittle about Heros taking drops...when they share your inventory. They take my gold, and my potential weapon drops, then at the end of the day I have to BUY stuff for them and Furnish their weapons.

Just think for a second, heroes are already gonna take the number of pug groups down to nil, imagine if they didn't take your drops? Guildmates wouldn't even group with each other anymore.

Thallandor · Oct 04, 2006, 01:35 AM // 01:35

Personally after thinking about how the heroes will work, i went out and bought 9 Superior Absorption Runes @ 420g EA for the 9 version of Koss i will have and 9 Major Vigor Runes @ 3.9k EA for him(s). Then i remembered that i will have 2 other heros: 1 PC + 3 Heros = 9 X 3 = 27 characters that will need Runes at a minimum.

Guess that takes care 9 Koss Hero version type, now i will have to find the space for the rest of the 18.....

Quote:

Originally Posted by TadaceAce

Just think for a second, heroes are already gonna take the number of pug groups down to nil, imagine if they didn't take your drops? Guildmates wouldn't even group with each other anymore.

I remembered Prior to Factions release when we were debating about Mega Alliances that will be formed and stuffing causal gamers and guilds, while during that time on VGM Jeff Strain mentions that in "the next chapter-NF" for example a player who wants to play a warrior and want to go at it alone can do so and there will be methods put in place for him-Heros. I was partly confused then when i heard that and though: Isnt that what henchman are for??

Anyways Perhaps the implementation of Heros is also Anet's way of addressing causal players ( great in theory, but is a logistical nightmare in practice-not bashing, in fact i love Heros) and also the massive debates we had before about cookie cutter builds in groups and how some classes are neglected or cant into groups if anyone remembered.

As for some issues Heros may bring about would be:

1) Since the Strength of Hero depends mostly on the individual unlocks and no doubt everyone will believe that their Hero build is the most Leet, arugements when deciding who's hero to bring for a particular mission such as : "MY HEROS ARE BETTER THAN YOURS!" within PuGs and perhaps guild members may become a problem in less tightly knitted guilds and become a source of internal Elistism-i pray this will never happen.

2) This current system (if unchanged) for Heros greatly benefits the more experienced Players since we had over 17 months+ to unlock skills through play. Those new to Guild Wars itself playing just the NF PvE component may find that even though they have Heros who join them, but in more diffcult missions and quest they may feel that they dont have the appropriate skills and though some may be inclined to buy unlock packs in the online store, others will grind to unlock skills in what ever way they can, but the general decline in experienced players in PuGs (we all know how much we hate PuGing) will systematically weed out most new players who play causally over time. - I believe FrogDevourer is also addressing this in a different thread in these forum section but since i am here with this i though i bring more attention to this rant.

3) In constrast to Factions where large guilds are promoted, in Nightfall smaller and more causal guilds are encouraged with the introduction of Heros for experienced players (technically now a couple can form their own guild and just play with themselves without interacting with anyone else around them: (1+3)*2). What this may translate into is the decrease of high quality players avaible for recruitment but also a great influx of newer players looking for guilds that will help them to unlock-which in this case will most likely to be looking for PvP guilds if they are smart about it. But this also means some PvE guilds may have more problems looking for the right sort of players to attract into their guild should they chose to expand in Nightfall. IMO this is also a very stuble move by Anet to encourage players to PvP under the guise of PvE implementation.

Ole Man Bourbon · Oct 04, 2006, 02:34 AM // 02:34

New players don't have to unlock all the skills, they just need to unlock the ones needed for good/popular builds. In PvE, especially as a new player, you don't need to be particularly versatile.

Paperfly · Oct 04, 2006, 04:37 AM // 04:37

Quote:

To avoid hero redundancy, you'll want to equip 3 more heroes per character, and may be 5 more to ensure a full compatibility with your team mate's heroes. So you'll basically have to equip 60/80 heroes total. Happy farming.

Nah, if someone else's heroes are on par with mine - or, God forbid, better - then he's clearly good enough (as am I) that the two of us won't need anything beyond the standard hench spread.

...And if I'm genuinely PuGging, two monk slots is the maximum that would be filled by Heroes anyway.

WhiteZombie · Oct 04, 2006, 04:50 AM // 04:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ninna

I tested that during preview

Heroes cannot use a customized weapon from a different character

...unless theyre preorder weapons ;P

Yawgmoth · Oct 04, 2006, 05:53 AM // 05:53

Heroes will be a (minor) gold sink only when you'll equip them with items from crafters. And only then. (runes may count aswell, but thet're very cheap except vigors)
If you decide to 'pimp your Koss' with a perfect gold something you bought for 100k+xx ecto is not a gold sink as you simply bought it from anoter player -> the money hasn't left the economy.

Karmaniac · Oct 04, 2006, 07:43 AM // 07:43

Big news! Double green drops weekend is coming. My farming sense is tingling. Makes you think Anet is encouraging us to prepare ourselves? In any case it would be kinda nice if heroes could get their equipment through questing. Even now there was information that gameplay can affect the look of hero armor. So couldn't equipment rewards like in pre/post-searing Ascalon be full well possible?

strcpy · Oct 04, 2006, 07:56 AM // 07:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ninna

Heroes come Equipped with Gear and no Runes

its up to you if you want to change their gear

Of course, your own characters do too. You have perfectly fine starter armor and weapons - it is your choice to upgrade them if you want. Heck, the heros are a step above this in that thier armor upgrades by itself.

I do not see why they can not have henchie grade stuff as a minimum. That includes weapons and skills. If you want *above* hench grade stuff that is your choice - but the "heroes" shouldn't be less than henchies.

For the most part I have enough for myself. I have enough that they are superior to henchies and can outfit them in time. Other than runes everything is trasferable around unless you customize it - which I do not on expensive stuff to begin with.

For established characters, even at the elevated levels crafter/collector weapons are cheap. It takes little time to farm for them (so little time if you call that grind your day is miserable - I "grind" more time out brushing my teeth and hair everyday for way less reward. Unless you have the "easy button" from the commercials you are in for a unhappy life). You should also already have the unlocks neccesary just by playing the game. The only real issue may be runes and we have not seen how they are handled yet (unlocks, purchase, or both?).

For new people I feel for them. It will probably be confusing why the hero's are elevated above henchies. But pretty much none of those complaining here are new. For us they are nothing less than an improvement (even if you will not use them).

Ninna · Oct 04, 2006, 11:13 AM // 11:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by strcpy

I do not see why they can not have henchie grade stuff as a minimum. That includes weapons and skills.

I believe heroes do - as appropiate for their starting level

Example:
Get Koss at level 1 or 2, all he has is starting char sword / shield

Get Monks around level 6 and they had wands with Req6

at level 16 I did the Ranger Hero quest - and was given a level 11 Ranger but neglected to look at her default bow

Heroes you get on the Starting Island have poor gear because their weapons do not get better as they level (unless you help)

Level 20 Heroes, on the mainland, can be assumed to have gear appropiate for level 20 Henchmen.